My despair was of great importancee-Teat.pl

photo.Bartek Barczyk

Jacek Cieślak Dziady are not your first job with Maja Kleczewska.In 2000, you played in Jordan, who was her loud debut at the Krakow Theater.Juliusz Słowacki.

Dominika Bednarczyk in a sense too, because this role shaped me for years.I finished school earlier, in 1996, and I was lucky that I worked with Krystian Lupa, I played in his diploma performances - cherry pads and olive padders, with the great role of Maja Ostaszewska as a general and equally excellent roles of my colleagues.Working with Krystian sets up for life, right after school, similar experiences are sought, and they are rare.Working with Maja on Jordan was therefore the first after school, which allowed me to penetrate the regions previously discovered with a magnifying glass.I worked six months.The text was difficult - it is a monodrama based on the facts about Shirley, an infanticide who on the day of acquittal commits suicide.The text was co -created by Anna Reynolds, who served a punishment in prison, I think that for killing her mother.Shirley was inspired by the figure of a girl from the so -called social lowlands, which Reynolds met in the cell.The heroine of the monodrama attempted to kill a child when she was to be taken away, unfortunately a successful one.Then she wanted to commit suicide because she believed that she could exist with her son Jordan in the second, better world.However, it was rescued.The performance was a kind of confession and an investigation to the truth about what happened and why.During the trials I was inexperienced and ready for everything.Solidly, I got deep into work.I think they were trembling about me at some point.She was afraid that I would teleport somewhere, cross the limit of life and privacy and safe playing.

Cieślak, what was it about?

Bednarczyk we work on our own bodies and psyche.The red warning lamp should remind you that the role is fiction and you need to protect yourself.Not everyone is doing it.Daniel Day-Lewis, working on the film in the name of his father, locked himself in prison for a few days and demanded from his partner actors to beat him really in the interrogation scene.

Cieślak and what did your preparations look like?

Bednarczyk I focused on my psyche.Every day I watched by breaking von Trier waves.I started a month before the premiere, and then I continued before each performance, a total of a hundred times.I created the whole ritual.On the day I played a monodrama, from fourteen I didn't talk to anyone, I wasolated, listened to Björk recordings.In turn, the character of Bess McNeill illustrates the direction of work on the role, which for Emily Watson also had to be exhausting.To sum up: in my psyche I let in the psyche of the would -be suicide, the infanticidal, for whom Jordan's son was the only love in life.I do not want to be exalting, but I actually lost contact with reality, and Majka's reaction was in doubt as to whether the role would overwhelm.However, if it wasn't for that role, I wouldn't be who I was now as an actress.

Cieślak about your second performance knives in chickens are said to be a failure.

Bednarczyk and I loved this spectacle, although we got very bad reviews and the antinocriot of the embarko of the year.The work was difficult, I ripen humility for a long time.Then, if something didn't suit me - I just didn't.That's why after Jordan, this second meeting brought a job in total.However, the figure of the young was a great theatrical journey for me.Despite the hard attempts, I really liked playing that spectacle.

Cieślak, let's get to Dziady.We already had loud men's roles played by actresses, even Hamlet Teresa Budzisz-Krzyżanowska ...

Bednarczyk ... But she played a man, a text with men's tips.

Cieślak is true ... Have you ever thought about playing Konrad?

Bednarczyk and where!

Cieślak, how was Maja Kleczewska's proposal?

Bednarczyk rang when I returned by car from rehabilitation.I must point out: We haven't heard twenty years!I was dumbfounded.I felt weak, I had to stop.I knew that she would do Dziady in our theater, but I wasn't sure if he would cast me.When Maja called, she said: "Hi, would you like to work with me?".I replied: "Sure"."You know because I'm doing grandfathers"."Yeah"."Listen, because I would like you to play Konrad".I replied: "Jesus Mary!".Or similarly.I didn't know what to say.It stood that I have to think about this proposal calmly, and then we will call.I stood at Tesco and thought, "I don't know".

Cieślak was not obvious to you?

Bednarczyk The first thing that occurred to me was that the premiere is to be in Krakow, where everyone remembers the creation of Jerzy Trela or they heard about her.Then I thought about the national and Gustaw Holoubek.I thought: "They will eat me".

Cieślak did not feel the feminist "yes, now the actresses belong to such roles"?

Bednarczyk no.I thought I didn't remember the text.I had to remember him.I also do not have a demanding approach to roles, I do not think that I deserve something in my profession.It is burdensome, but if something goes - great.

Cieślak, how did you start working?What did you say?

Bednarczyk I decided that I would like to listen a lot, that I would take as much as possible from Maja.The first attempt was a test of how the text sounds with female tips, which will happen with the behavior of rhyme.When rhyme and rhythm broke - it was unbearable.I did not know what guys would say, because when the cast hung on the board, it was not written who was playing.Each of these few actors came to the test, he could think that he would play Konrad.

Cieślak, how did they react to choosing the director?

Bednarczyk no wiem, bo nie patrzyłam! (śmiech).Maja said that there was an idea for Konrad to play Dominika Bednarczyk.I think there was a lot of doubts.We talked honestly before we started reading, because it was not known how it would sound all this.I also read, I had the impression that the text is male when it comes to pride, not offending men ...

Cieślak I had the opportunity to write after the premiere that your role is stripped of male and romantic pride, thanks to the female interpretation.

Bednarczyk we have worked on it.We really wanted it.And after the first reading of a few colleagues came to me and said that my commitment works, that it was heard, and yet it was my first attempt, made in a trembling voice.Before the holidays, we managed to take two rehearsals and we parted.I went to the holidays with the books of Maria Janion.

Cieślak what did you read?

Bednarczyk nosamowitą Słowiańszczyznę oraz Kobiety i duch inności, ale też bardzo dużo wywiadów.I actually started with them.Throughout the holidays I read, thought, we wrote to each other with SMSs and we met again in September.Work began.I will say this: from the collections.May saved me.Finally, we started to improvise.It was only during the second general attempt that it turned out that I would be present in the entire course.We worked separately earlier.I had a lot of comfort, I wasn't involved all the time.I had a lot of space for searching, I could continue to read, and Maja urged me to use what the present time brings, i.e. what was happening to the Polish-Belarusian border.The women's strike lasted for a year.

Cieślak, but in the performance there is no sign of women's strike or other symbols known from street demonstrations.

Bednarczyk I think they were not needed ... The matter of Iza from Pszczyna was still important.It has happened here and now, before our eyes.

Cieślak a surprising answer to the question: "Do you know what it will be with Poland in two hundred years?".

Bednarczyk Yes.And yet I read malicious comments that we should do grandfathers about the Polish nation, about its suffering.And it seems to me that we have made a spectacle about the suffering of the Polish nation.

Cieślak What else did you remember from the rehearsals?

Bednarczyk Maja led me demanding but tenderly.I learned great improvisation quickly, also because I remembered well from Dziady from 2003 directed by Maciek Sobociński, in which I played the role of Krzysiek Zawadzki.I listened carefully to the great improvisation in his performance also because I was on stage immediately after it was finished.Zawadzki spoke great.As for me, when I told all the great improvisation for the first time, I was finished."Well, this is the state in which you should be from the beginning.Come on ".We tried different versions, "Frontman", "Strike".

Cieślak, however, at the premiere ...

Bednarczyk ... there was something completely different.Truth?

Cieślak of course.Konrad became a painful woman who emphasizes the phrase: "I feel the whole suffering of the nation / like a mother feels the pain of her fetus in the womb," not understanding the tyrannian form of power and soullessness of God, to whom he prays.Mrs. Konrad asked why power and God are not empathic.Without any aggression.

Bednarczyk, I think that was the point.Maja persuaded me to a personal journey.I am a believer who now feels homeless in the Church, because the institution did not take care of the community of everyone, becomes a foreign to me, having less and less in common with the basics of Christianity, primarily with the commandment of love of neighbor, which is the most important for me.My sense of despair was of great importance at work.

Cieślak Konrad does not go to church on Sunday?

Bednarczyk no longer ... goes to the forest.He has a temple in the forest.He prays there.The forest is of course ambiguous ...

Cieślak are we not talking about forest and Slavic deities?

Bednarczyk no, ale mówiłam Wielką Improwizację w lesie, ku uciesze wszystkich rowerzystów i biegaczy.I was walking, I spoke with my eyes closed and I got into one of them when he warmed up.He probably thought that you were going with dogs and he has a bounds, and I said a great improvisation.The forest, open and wild, was the best place to speak.

Cieślak, please tell me if Konrad's most important prop, or bullets, are taken from the life of Janina Ochojska, a charity activist who, despite her limitations, practices love of neighbor?

Bednarczyk was the idea of Maja and our costume designer Konrad Parol.At the beginning Konrad's figure was to be Janina Ochojska 1: 1, with clothing and hairstyle.Then we decided, I also would be too insolent.We came to the conclusion that we will mark the inspiration, we will bow towards Janina Ochojska, her work and sacrifice, but we will not live it with the performance.At first I was afraid of these balls ...

Cieślak Kules are a visible sign of suffering, but people such as Janina Ochojska who deal with the fate of many people in need of help, have a greater right to say that they suffer for millions than a Megalomanian poet.

Bednarczyk of course.

Cieślak, let's say that Konrad has a dance alter ego, which shows Konrad's spirituality, his freedom.Despite the physical disability, it rises above the ground.Flows.Years.

Bednarczyk when Kaya Kołodziejczyk appeared, who could everything in dance, coexisting with her brought me relief.It was a great idea.I felt like Weronika Kieślowski's double life.Generally, Konrad's journey is lonely and difficult, as I, as an actress, also feel.Kai's presence helps me a lot.For me, Kaya is the soul of Konrad.I love these common moments on the stage, and our theme has been developing since the premiere.Kaya also helped us a lot in the stage move.

Cieślak, the spectacle begins the monologue of Konrad broadcast from the theater basement to the screen pinned to the curtain.Where is Konrad then?In the cell?

Bednarczyk Yes, określiłyśmy to miejsce jako celę.We also said that maybe Konrad was recording a will.This scene has also evolved.

Cieślak is expressed in this scene that Poland is becoming a prison?

Bednarczyk Yes.But Maja also introduces sleep poetics.We are dealing with a certain projection.This, like a prison, is a motive taken from Shakespeare.Anyway, we have a quote in Dziady.Sleep can be a remedy.Dreaming, we can enter our subconscious, communicate with ourselves, find the answer to the question, what to do to make a change.Or what to do to wake people up, wake up to action.Maja made sure that it would be legible and define Konrad's entire journey.It starts with a dream and ends with a dream.The last monologue, starting with the words "Silent Night", which is also a fragment of the prologue of the third part of Dziady, appeared after the third general.Maja said: "Maybe it will be a sleep of sleep at the beginning of the performance".

Cieślak Konrad looks at the Senator's Ball scene.Is it a reminder of the past or a repeat from it, which we can't believe in our eyes?

Bednarczyk is closing the wheel.Dream, but hoping that something is finally dug.In thinking about this scene, I was accompanied by Maria Janion and her interpretation of the myth of Sisyphus.We push the boulder with the hope that which day will not stand and we will achieve the goal.

Cieślak Konrad joins women in the cell.They are beaten, show "faka" to the camera.Who are?

Bednarczyk no definiowałyśmy tego.We didn't have to call it clearly so that it would be legible.When we actresses Słowacki found ourselves together in the moat imaging the cell, when we spoke in Mickiewicz's text and listened to ourselves ...

Cieślak then?

Bednarczyk I remember the first improvisation of this scene.It was a sponge that suffered reality.But I think that every viewer has room for their own interpretation.They can be girls from a women's strike or from protests "stop torture on the border" or accused of abortions.Everything in this scene can fit.They can also be activists from Belarus, imprisoned by Lukashenko, kidnapped from houses and streets.Beaten.

Cieślak has a lot of change in the original related to priest Piotr and his vision.Who plays Marcin Kalisz before the altar of Wit Stwosz, designed by Katarzyna Borkowska?

Bednarczyk we thought about a picture that fits into the bad practices of the Church's people.As I mentioned, being a believer, I have a big problem with it.Father Lemański, Father Boniecki, are for me a real priest.In Krakow it is very visible.I have to say something: reading Dziady, I had the feeling that a critical view of the people of the Church was inscribed in.In my opinion, Father Piotr is very ambiguous.And when I saw the first time the role of Marcin Kalisz and the vision of Ewa performed by Karolina Kazoń - I was stuck.For many people, this scene is controversial or even stretched.I don't have such a feeling.The sins of the Church are revealed at the increasingly higher levels of his hierarchy, hence the change of prior to the pope in the question "Do you know why the Pope is not conducive to you?".I have the impression that we are getting closer to the Polish National Church.One of the Krakow priests said that Pope Francis should leave this world!There are many other forms of disobedience.I like it very much that Maja removed the figure of the spirit from the stage of Father Piotr and Konrad.Exorcisms take place only on Konrad.We read about this dubious practice.I talked to a psychiatrist who mentioned that talks with the Church have been underway for a long time to abandon exorcisms, because they are an obvious abuse.We watched the document free me about Sicilian exorcists.The content that this image conveys is terrifying.Exorcisms are subject to mentally ill people with split personalities, and if they are believers, they are eager to enter this convention.I also used the book of Stanisław Obirk and Artur Nowak Gomor with a very interesting chapter about exorcisms.All this meant that I could not imagine that this scene could be shown differently than violently.

Cieślak Konrad is beaten in the face on the altar.

Bednarczyk in the earlier version Konrad was defeated.Then Maja decided that it could not be like that.That's why Konrad is fighting Piotr to the end.

Cieślak and screams many times: "Do you know why the Pope is not conducive to you?".

Bednarczyk Rest is Mickiewicz: "Do you know what they say about you all over the city?- / And you know what it will be with Poland in two hundred years?- ".Two hundred years have passed and it's terrible.I think Mickiewicz knew us very well.

Cieślak And how do you understand the participation of devils in the first scene, the one in the cell, and after great improvisation, when they are weakened by water with water and bring before Piotr?Then Konrad says the issues taken over from the spirit.

Bednarczyk I will tell you honestly: I don't analyze it.Both the archangel and ghosts belong to the poetics of sleep, which draws Konrad from the beginning.I will say this - I coexist with them.And viewers will read it in their own way.

Cieślak wondered what will be the reactions to the performance?

Bednarczyk I am a bit stunned.I was afraid if I would raise this role.Will everything make sense.I am talking about myself, not about the performance, because watching general rehearsals, I already knew that an important performance was created.I just didn't know if I could deal with a possible attack in the case: why Konrad plays a woman?I had a lot of doubts.

CIEŚLAK Małopolska curator does not recommend going to the performance.The Minister of Education talked about "Dziadost".

Bednarczyk, yes, but they didn't see the performance.It is difficult to discuss in this situation, and the theater is to discuss consciously.Like or not.We issued a statement as a theater as a theater.I sign under it.I am happy that young people who watched the spectacle have a positive, full of understanding reception.Our grandfathers are important to them, they can identify with them.In turn, critical comments emphasize that we dared to put ourselves in the whole current situation in the country, and this is abuse.Or maybe it is worth asking what is really the greatest abuse in Poland today.

Cieślak, I think that this spectacle filled the intentions of Maria Janion and Kazimierz Dejmek related to grandfathers from 1967, which, as they declared, were really to be anti -religious, immunity, smoking accent in the sphere of folk, Slavic and even socialism.Maria Janion appears as a figure in the rite's scene and says: "People!Each of you could, lonely, imprisoned, / with thought and faith to blame and lift the thrones ".

Bednarczyk for me in an amazing Slavic region, it was important to say that the adoption of Christianity deprived us of Slavic mythology, which was replaced.

Cieślak, yes, mythology was replaced, but the Piasts had a choice: either to get Germanized like other Slavic tribes, after which in the area of Würzburg - Zgorzelec remained only names, or follow the path of Byzantine Orthodox.Mieszko chose optimally.He could not predict Sarmatism and the endecja, which, moreover, had her image of the Slavs.

Bednarczyk and I mean our pedigree.About where the national megalomania connected to the complex, which is now gaining strength, comes from where the national megalomania.We want to be Christ of Nations again, and at the same time we have a Europe complex.Janion talked about the unity of our soul.With all the love of romanticism, she thought she was destructive, vampire, tearing.It must be accepted that in our nation there are such units as Gustaw, romantic-trigic-sendimental.We accept this personality, but at the same time we definitely go forward, we work like Konrad, going to Europe with our dead.At the same time, Janion believed that "our dead" was primarily Jews and the lost Jewish part of the culture of Poland.

Cieślak will we add something?

Bednarczyk, creating a role, I thought that there was strength at work.