Beijing 2022. The world looks at China.A tragedy of the Utgors is underway in the shade of the Games

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2. Igrzyska olimpijskie
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4. Pekin 2022. Świat patrzy na Chiny. W cieniu igrzysk trwa tragedia Ujgurów

There is no excuse for the granting of China Organization of the Olympic Games, when the world knows about the genocide carried out on my people - says for WP Dolku ISA magazine, the leader of the World U:.

Michał Gostkiewicz, WP magazine: As you will comment on the fact that the knowledge of the persecution of U: Chinese authorities is widely available, and yet Beijing is organizing the Olympic Games for the second time - a event symbolizing the peaceful coexistence of nations?

Dolku Isa, leader of the World Uudden Congress: when in 2008 China was the hosts of the Games for the first time, organizations protecting human rights protested, pointing to the not very glorious achievements of Beijing in this field.The international community disregarded these protests, claiming that the games would open China to democracy and civil liberties.

However, this time there is no excuse.The world knows about the genocide carried out in Utgura and violation of human rights in Tibet, Mongolia Internal and Hong Kong.There is no excuse to grant China by the International Olympic Committee of the Law of the Winter Olympic Games.

Many countries will boycott the opening ceremony.Do you think this is a sufficient reaction?

This is the first step in the right direction.But the world must do more.We do not stop calling for all countries to join a diplomatic boycott.We also call for sponsors and athletes themselves to speak, supporting Ujgurów.Anyone who is involved in the games has a moral duty to speak and act.

In such moments, when it looks like it is enough to have a lot of money - and China has a lot of them to avoid responsibility - do you not lose hope?

Niestety Chiny rzeczywiście są potężnym krajem. Ale nikt, niezależnie od tego, jak jest potężny, nie powinien być bezkarny. Aby temu przeciwdziałać, niektóre kraje wprowadziły wobec Chin sankcje lub zakazy importu pewnych towarów. I chociaż to wciąż zbyt mało, nie możemy tracić nadziei. Życie naszych przyjaciół i naszych rodzin zależy od nas samych. Jeśli my nie będziemy ich bronić iw ich imieniu mówić, to nie zrobi tego nikt. Dla nas, Ujgurów, nie ma takiej opcji jak utrata nadziei.Dolkun Isa pokazuje zdjęcia Ujgurów osadzonych w "obozach reedukacyjnych" / fot. Franck Robichon / PAP/EPAŁatwo taką nadzieję stracić, kiedy trzeba emigrować, by ratować wolność. Wyjechał pan z Chin legalnie czy nielegalnie?

Both legally and illegally.

How it's possible?

I will explain at the end of our conversation.But first I will take you to 1984.I studied physics at the largest university in Sinciang.But we, U: Uzguurz, we talk to our homeland, wide Türkistan, Eastern Turkestan.

Every day I saw the discrimination of my countrymen, but I didn't understand its causes.There was no free media, I had no way to know the history of my people.But at the university I met new people.We started asking questions that our teachers couldn't answer.

Every Wednesday we had "Polityka" classes.We studied the Chinese constitution, we learned about the policy of the Chinese communist government, but we also learned the law of the autonomous Sinciang region.Our right.In which, as it turned out, there was the right to freedom of gatherings and freedom of speech.We also learned that Utgurian language is the official first language of the Sinciang-Sujgur autonomous region.It looked good on paper.The thing is that at that time 75 to 80 percent.of all Uighurs was illiterate.There were no schools in the countryside.

So a large part of the U:.

Me and my colleagues were young and we wanted to change it.We wanted to organize student trips to the countryside in the summer - then there were no private companies where students worked on vacation - teach people to read.The elimination of illiteracy was a government policy.Then I learned for the first time that this policy has two faces.When none of the authorities of the Sinciang region answered us, on June 15, 1988, we organized a great anti -discrimination rally at the campus of the University.I had a five -hour debate with a high -ranking official of the Chinese communist party.The compromise was not achieved, so we returned to demonstrate.Then I was put into a home custody for a few months, and then thrown out of the university.This was my last semester, they didn't let me graduate.

But at least at least we could protest and discuss party representatives.Now not only cannot speak but also think!

How can you make people stop thinking?

You need a system that knows what you are thinking about.

According to satellite photos published by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), from 2017 China has built at least 380 detention centers (a kind of psychiatric detention.red.) throughout Sinciang.Beijing calls them "educational and training centers".

It is very difficult to get information about the camps - even about their exact number.However, based on the accounts of witnesses we reached, we suspect that there are many more camps - about 1000 - than those 380 discovered by ASPI.

In the media I read the testimonies of people who claim that they survived the camps.These witnesses talked about inhuman living conditions (one bucket instead of toilets for peace), constant mental pressure, torture, beating.And about compulsory "re -education lessons".

Sprawy zaczęły iść w naprawdę złym kierunku, gdy Xi Jinping przejął władzę w Chinach w 2014 roku. Do tego czasu można było mówić o polityce asymilacyjnej wobec Ujgurów. Od 2014 roku, czyli od powołania Chen Quanguo - byłego sekretarza partii komunistycznej Tybetu - na sekretarza Turkiestanu Wschodniego, możemy mówić o polityce ludobójczej. 28 czerwca 2021 roku, obchody 100. rocznicy Komunistycznej Partii Chin. Wystąpienie prezydenta Xi Jipinga. Dolkun Isa wskazuje, że to od chwili objęcia przez niego urzędu można mówić o rozpoczęciu "polityki ludobójczej" wobec Ujgurów / fot. Kevin Frayer / Getty imagesDrugi raz używa pan słowa "ludobójstwo". To bardzo poważne oskarżenie. Jakie ma pan argumenty na poparcie tezy, że polityka Chin we wschodnim Turkiestanie jest "ludobójcza"?

Personally, I listened to the testimonies of people who survived the Chinese camps.They wake you up in the morning at 5:00.You have to sit peacefully and you can't talk to anyone, you can't communicate with each other.

I saw photos of prisoners painting landscapes.And one more thing - sitting in the rows in silence.

The first thing you realize in the camp is that you have to reject your own national and ethnic identity.You must submit self -criticism, condemn your behavior and emotionally, straight from the heart, declare loyalty to the communist party of China and XI Jinping.Of course, in Chinese, even if you don't know this language - so you can't even think in your language.If you speak to someone, you have to use Chinese.If you speak Ubgursk, the guards will impose you.Armed with cameras, they monitor you all the time and decide if your loyalty declaration is true.

How does the prisoner declare loyalty to the regime that imprisoned him?

"Without the Chinese communist party, without the 11th Jinping there is no life.Thank you for XI Jinping.Thank you for the communist party of China ".Remember, say it from your interior, from the heart.We are Muslims.We usually thank God before meals.Now we thank XI Jinping.

How important is Islam for Utgurska identity?

It is a little different than in other Muslim countries.When I grew up, when asked about religion, we said "We are Muslims".But what is Islam of Shiicki, what Islam Sunni is - we had no idea.Utgur may declare that he is a Muslim, and at the same time he can drink beer - but he will not eat.So Islam is basically our tradition.When I grew up, I was never witnessed any manifestations of radicalism, a radical Islam.Despite this, Chinese communists attack Islam because the party itself has always been anti -religious.Chinese Christians are also persecuted, their churches are destroyed.Falun Gong members were persecuted, Tibetan Buddhists suffered a lot.

Thanks to surveillance technology, the authorities probably even know when you pray.

You must not pray in public.Until 2015, it was allowed to welcome people: "Salam aleikum!".Now you can't say these words.Now you can't call your child Mohammed or Ahmed!Just because it is the "Islamic" name.And you can't thank Allah, you must thank XI Jinping.And if the guards, the police or party think that your intentions are not real, that you are insincere ... Well, if the prisoner is not obedient, he can be tortured.Or rape.

The BBC published the testimonies of women who were collectively raped in the camps by the Chinese.In June, the informal U: U: London Study Study began to interrogate witnesses who shared stories from the camps.

From what we know, every Utgur at the entrance to the camp gets an injection.Of which?It is not known.But the prisoner cannot refuse.The women who managed to survive the camp told us that a few weeks after the injection, their menstruation stopped.

Yesie jest życie w obozie. Nie wiemy, ile dokładnie ludzi siedzi w obozach, ale szacujemy od miliona w górę do nawet trzech milionów. Chiński rząd twierdzi, że w Chinach żyje 12 milionów Ujgurów. Oznaczałoby to, że większość naszych ludzi nadal jest wolna. Ale czy to jest wolność? Chen Quanguo zamienił cały region autonomiczny w więzienie pod gołym niebem. Nawet jeśli nie jesteś więźniem obozu, nadal jesteś obiektem permanentnej inwigilacji.Zdjęcia wykonane ukrytą kamerą w jednym z ośrodków reedukacyjnych. Opublikowano je w Bitter Winter, magazynie internetowym poświęconym wolności religijnej i prawom człowieka w Chinach / Bitter WinterKamery na każdym kroku?

It is also, but above all people.

People?

Yes.They watch you.In 2018, from 1 to 2 million members of the Communist Party of China were sent to Eastern Turkestan.They were to live with Uighur Families to follow them.

They live with the Uighur Families in their homes?!

Yes.Sometimes they stay for a month, sometimes for two, sometimes for a few weeks.They eat with their families, sleep with them.There were rapes - because so many Ubgur men are in camps.Permission to a foreign man to enter the house, when there is no husband or father of his family in him, he is contrary to Uighurst's tradition.But if the Utęgurska family refuses them, she will be considered "radical" and the questions will start.But forced marriages are even worse.If the Chinese says he wants to marry your daughter or sister - you can't refuse.U: Uighter women are also blackmailed."If you marry me, I will help save your parents or children or siblings to sending to the camp".That is why some Ubgur girls, trying to ensure the safety of their family, agree to such marriages.

I heard these stories from Uighurs from the Diaspora in Central Asia.

But there is other evidence: Voice of America quotes experts who claim that the Chinese authorities promote mixed marriages in the eastern Turkestan.VOA also showed a video from a campaign promoting marriages between Chinese men and Uighur women.

And I saw a recording from such a forced marriage.Have you ever seen the bride crying at your wedding?I do.

What other control measures are applied to the Uighurs?

In 2017, I lost contact with my family.All Use in the Diaspora - in the United States, Germany or other European countries - have the same problem.Lack of contact.Zero.Until we receive a heart -tearing heart.

A year after I lost contact with my mother, my friends from Australia informed me that she had died.I started to try to contact my family through all the phone numbers I had.But I couldn't reach anyone. Potem zaczęły do ​​mnie dzwonić media, żeby zapytać o śmierć mojej mamy: czy to się stało w domu, w obozie, czy w szpitalu? A ja nie wiedziałem.Just a few weeks later, the Uzgurian Radio Free Asia section, randomly calling police numbers and state officials, confirmed that my 78-year-old mother was placed in a concentration camp and died there.

...

Last year, I found out about my father's death.And again - I received this tragic message not from my family, but I read it in the "Global Times" - a Chinese newspaper!In addition, the government in Beijing forced my older sister to speak against me in Chinese and condemn me. Powiedziała, że ​​nasi rodzice zmarli ze starości i chorób, że nigdy nie byli w obozie, a ja jestem kłamcą.I'm sure they didn't give her any other choice.

Mr. Isa, how this feeling, in the middle, in the heart, when a man lives away from home for decades, and then the only news he gets from there is that the family is in danger, your parents left, and you don't evenWas it allowed to contact them?

When I was leaving in 1994, my mind would not have passed that it would be the last farewell to my parents.I really believed that the day would come when I meet them.I have never lost hope.I realize that since I left, my family is constantly persecuted by the Chinese government.But I was ready for it!

My family suffers a lot because of my activism.Freedom and democracy are not free.Someone has to pay the price.I am ready to pay it because I understand the whole system.Since I left the country, I have already heard so much information about disappearances, about death.But when I got the news of my parents' death, I felt: "I really pay this price.I myself ".

People are born and die - it's normal, that's life.But my mother's only crime was that she was my mother and that she was Utgurka!

You are the chairman of the World U: of all Uurst in exile, the Lord is one of the most monitored by China.If you show pain, your enemies will know that they managed to hurt you firmly.

Oczywiście, to był szok, gdy usłyszałem, że moja mama umarła. Ale zawsze pamiętam, że cierpią jeszcze trzy miliony ludzi! Zaakceptowałem tę rzeczywistość i postanowiłem dalej walczyć o wolność mojego ludu. Nawet jeśli moja rodzina będzie wolna - to niczego to nie zmieni. Pierwszy dzień pracy nieformalnego Ujgurskiego Trybunału Ludowego. Przesłuchiwani są m.in. świadkowie, którzy podzielili się opowieściami z obozów. Londyn, 4 czerwca 2021 roku / fot. Tolga Akmen / East NewsNiczego?

My goal is not only to save my family members.I recently heard that my younger brother was sentenced to life imprisonment.If someone is dying, maybe they are no longer suffering.Life in the Chinese concentration camp is worse.My goal is for all U:.

And what if people do not get involved in politics if they do not notice?

Yes czy inaczej są dyskryminowani w codziennym życiu.In the Eastern Turkestan, the U:.And the Chinese will immediately find a good job with many benefits.Some employment offers say openly: this position is for the Chinese.In the years 2008-2009, the Chinese government moved hundreds of thousands of young Uigh Uighons - men and women - to other Chinese provinces.They received a worse salary than the Chinese in similar positions.They were to complete the contract - from six months to a year - but even after this period they could not come back.

So you are young and you have to go hundreds of kilometers from home, mix with the Chinese majority in the destination and work to survive.The easiest way to calm down all revolutionary moods.And then in 2009 the mood among the Uighurs was indeed revolutionary.

In 2009, in our capital, Urumczi, an uprising broke out.Ubgurski worker died.Uudzguurze demanded justice, organized demonstrations.Official data - 197 killed.We know that there were over a thousand of them.

After these riots.The Lord says that the riots began because Chinese workers attacked and killed a Ubgur worker.The Chinese claimed that this worker raped a Chinese girl.Each act of violence committed by Ujgura can later be presented by Chinese propaganda as terrorism and separatism.

And so our actions are shown.You will use a knife against the police - a terrorist attack.A bomb will break out - a terrorist attack.

Well, bomb explosions are terrorism.

But the demonstration in 2009 was peaceful.

You mentioned that one worker was killed in this factory.Our sources talked about at least 16 Uburs workers killed by the Chinese in one night.But no matter how many will die, sixteen, one hundred or one - it is still a crime that the Chinese police have never examined.That is why Uudzgurzy used social media - then we had such an opportunity - and organized a demonstration.They even carried the Chinese flag to show that they are not separatists or terrorists, that they accept Chinese law, but demand justice for criminals who killed Ujgura.The government answered by force.

Before attacks of September 11, 2001, China called us "separatists" or "religious fundamentalists".After the attack on the World Trade Center, we - Uzguurzy, Muslims, we became terrorists from day to day.

The Lord was also accused by the Chinese authorities of terrorism.There is an UTCURSKA organization, accused by China of the use of brutal methods - the Islamic Party of Eastern Turkestan.China say you are her vice -chairman.

Oh, I am suspected of being one of the leading terrorists.In 1997, when the Chinese government first placed my name on the list of wanted Interpol, they introduced me as a killer, murderer, criminal.Not a terrorist.But in 2003 they put my name on the terrorist list.Interpol, however, removed me from this list in 2018.

What have you been accused of?

One of the charges was to put a bomb in Kashgar in 1996.But I left China in 1994!

Did you have the opportunity to contact someone in Kashgar, being abroad of China?

Nie, możliwości komunikacji były bardzo ograniczone. Kilka krótkich rozmów telefonicznych z rodzicami. A potem cisza. Nigdy w życiu nie widziałem prawdziwej bomby ani broni. Widziałem je tylko w filmach. Nigdy nikogo nie zabiłem. Na tych zdjęciach satelitarnych opublikowanych przez internetowy magazyn Bitter Winter Tursunay Ziawudun rozpoznała ośrodek reedukacyjny, w którym była więziona. Zdjęcia z 2017 r. (po lewej) i 2019 r. (po prawej) pokazują znaczący rozwój typowy dla obozów, przypominający budynki mieszkalne i fabryczne / Bitter WinterWedług Reutersa Pekin nigdy nie był w stanie przedstawić dowodów pana domniemanych zbrodni.

Because I was a student leader, and now I am the leader of the World Ubgurian Congress, it is easy to accuse me of terrorism.I was detained in some countries, I was refused to enter over 10 countries, I was removed - at the request of Chinese diplomats - from the UN headquarters and I was refused the right to give a speech.I was even threatened with a deportation to China.

This means that Beijing watches where you travel, where you live and with whom you meet.

I am not surprised that my actions attract the attention of the Chinese government.In a sense "normal".Beijing does not want the international community to hear the Voice of Utgurów.Almost all of us, refugees, are monitored.Sometimes we organize demonstrations against various Chinese embassies around the world.There were cases when they recorded us on the video.A few days later, Chinese officials in the Eastern Turkestan visited protesters' relatives. Te nękane rodziny później dzwoniły do ​​swoich krewnych na uchodźstwie i błagały: "Nie bierz udziału w tych wiecach, wiedziemy tu cudowne życie!".

Chinese officials also tried to blackmail the Uighurs to go to cooperation with secret services."Do you want to visit your family? Yese us information".In 2009, the German criminal police conducted an investigation into the four Uighurs, allegedly spy on China. Yes więc rząd chiński próbuje też zwrócić Ujgurów przeciwko innym Ujgurom - używając członków rodziny wciąż żyjących w naszej ojczyźnie jako zakładników.

In China, almost all citizens are connected to each other using various mobile technologies, tracking, supervision and facial recognition in the so -called social trust system.The most important principle of this system is: if you do good things, you get points;If you do bad things, you get negative points.The second most important rule: the judge and the bench is the Chinese government.The system informs state institutions, employers, but also other ordinary citizens, how good you are a citizen and what social status you have. Czy to prawda, że ​​za samo bycie Ujgurem dostaje się punkty ujemne?

Yes.This is the second method of surveillance - the first were, as we said, people.In China, digital recognition technologies and voice recognition are tested at Ujgure every day.And - as BBC reports - the Chinese also use emotions recognition software.They say now - from the expression of our faces - they know what we think.Quite useful for police auditions, right?

Chinese companies are building cameras with implemented face recognition software.And the ID card also has special software: if you go anywhere, you need to show your identifier, then the monitoring knows that you are not a Chinese.Facial and voice recognition software is also used in Tibet and Hong Kong.This technology has been successfully exported to other countries, including European countries.

Chinese mobile technology and cameras are popular in Poland, because many of these products are a compromise between price and quality.

They can be cheaper than Western products.But in a few years it may turn out that human life and freedom should not be cheap.With this cheaper technology, China impose authoritarian views, dictatorial practices and ideological beliefs on other countries.All these Chinese technologies have one more function: data collection.This is contrary to democracy, rule of law and human privacy, therefore it is a great threat to Western democracy.

What exactly China do with all these data?

If you know every movement of your movement and control your whole activity...Here is an example from 2019, from Hotanu: over 160 people were arrested because they turned off cell phones for over two hours!And the authorities knew about it, because the phones are sold with pre -installed software that you have no control over.When over 160 people turn off the phones for 2 hours, the police come and asks: "What did you do?! Have you had a private conversation?!"Or maybe it's just the phone's battery fell.But not: you have no privacy.That's why I call the whole region an open prison.

Can you imagine a foreseeable future in which Uvelin in the Eastern Turkestan will be free from the Almighty State?

Nigdy nie straciliśmy nadziei, bo chiński rząd jest wrogiem nie tylko Ujgurów. Nie ma już autonomii Tybetu. Autonomia wschodniego Turkiestanu istnieje na papierze. Demokracja w Hongkongu to przeszłość. Powoli, kraj po kraju, rządy zaczynają rozumieć, że Pekin jest zagrożeniem dla światowej demokracji, globalnego bezpieczeństwa i globalnych praw człowieka. Niedawno, na forum Rady Praw Człowieka ONZ 44 kraje złożyły wspólne oświadczenie krytykujące Chiny za łamanie praw człowieka. Dwa lata temu takie oświadczenie złożyły tylko 22 kraje. Yes więc mamy postęp.Gulzira Auelkhan była przetrzymywana w jednym z obozów w Sinciangu przez 18 miesięcy / fot. Joel van Houdt / Getty ImagesMoże przyjść taka chwila, gdy jedynymi Ujgurami, którzy będą w stanie żyć zgodnie ze swoją kulturą, pamiętać swoją historię, przeszłość, teraźniejszość, mówić w swoim języku, będą ci, którzy mieszkają poza Chinami.

No matter what you say before Chinese guards, what matters is what you feel in your heart.Completely eradication of identity is impossible.

We have just described the terrifyingly effective ways of washing brain people.

Maybe we lost everything.The survival of our identity in the Eastern Turkestan is threatened.But they won't kill us all.If one day the Chinese eliminate all Uvelin, it will be the responsibility of all humanity, especially democratic countries, which should feel obliged to stop the genocide committed on us.China is currently the second largest economy in the world.If they become number one, what world will we see in 20 years?They are already buying voices of poor countries to monopolize the UN human rights system.Distort the action of Interpol and WHO.Millions of people would not die at Covid-19 if the Beijing regime provided information on time.

Do you feel responsibility at the World Uighur Congress?What are you doing to cultivate your culture, customs, traditions and religion?

Our diaspora is really big.Over a million Uighurs live in Central Asia, such as Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, as well as in Turkey, Germany - and 200,000 people in the USA.We - WUC and all other organizations, we use our structures for the education of the younger generation.There is a Ubgurska school in almost every country where our diaspora is present.For example, in Germany we teach our language, culture and history.And dance!Each Utgur knows how to dance!Dance and singing are part of our daily lives.My parents have never taught me dance, but I think Ujguras can dance from their birth.My children grew up in Germany, but they can dance!We also organize Christmas celebrations - Kurban, Ramadan, Nowrz.And Meshrep - this is an important cultural event.

Is there any element of U: Ubgur cultural heritage that connects you emotionally with your homeland?

Twelve muqam.This is the mother of U:.It is a musical form that combines sung poetry, stories and music telling.It consists of over 300 different melodies, about 4,000 poems of texts, and the whole takes about 24 hours.Her history dates back to ancient times.

I am asking for this emotional relationship because you have been a refugee for 25 years.

After throwing out of the university, I tried to open a language school in my hometown.But I did not get permission, so in 1990 I moved to Beijing.I studied English and Turkish two years.Then I opened the Ujgurska restaurant.There was a street in Beijing, where there were a dozen or so Ubgurian restaurants, including mine.I had many European friends at the university, and a lot of foreign students came to our restaurant.People were curious: your language is different, your face is different, your religion is different, you are not a Chinese, who are you?- they asked.I told them that my country is occupied by China, we have a different story.I wanted to practice my English, so I talked a lot.

Bad idea.

Yes.I was monitored by the Chinese police.They came regularly to my restaurant to eat something.They never paid!One day in 1994 they asked me to come to the police station for a long interrogation.They innocently claimed that all other bosses.It turned out that others did not get the same questions as I am.

One day I received a message from my friend from Urumczi.He told about a high -level meeting, at which my name was mentioned: "Dolkun opened a restaurant in Beijing, which is actually not a real restaurant, but an international information exchange center".Because foreign friends came to my restaurant to eat something!Then another person sent me a message: "Dolku, it gets dangerous.Are you able to leave? ".

It was not easy.I was registered in the Eastern Turkestan.And I needed a passport.Where I come from, I didn't have a chance.But now I lived in Beijing.I knew many people here and I had money.And in China, if you have money, you can get everything.I bought a passport.But according to this passport I was someone else!Here is the answer to your first question: I left China legally, using a passport, and at the same time illegally, because with false identity.Then I had to wait two years for my wife.Because you see when I was forced to flee, I already had a wife.She was then in the third month of pregnancy with our daughter.When I hesitated: "Should I leave?", She said, "Please, go".If I stayed, I would go to custody, because at that time I published a historical book in the U:.

Six months later, my daughter was born.Two years later I saw her for the first time.

My wife worked as a Chinese-Arab translator in a Chinese construction company.She traveled a lot - so she had a passport.Two years later, in 1996, she came to Turkey, where I lived then.In the same year I applied for political asylum in Germany.In 1998 I came to Germany.

What would you do if your wife could not smoke from China?Would you come back there?

I could not.I was lucky.I have colleagues whose families could not leave China.For 27 years my colleague could not bring his family to Germany.They finally parted.When he left, his children were 3 years old and 1 year old.He recently got a message: they are in the camp.

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